Officer peer briefing: Introducing the sector support offer for local authorities

Joanna Killian: Hi, my name's Joanna Killian and I am lucky enough to be chief executive at the LGA. Welcome to so many people that have joined us today. A couple of, sort of, housekeeping rules that I've got to offer you first, if you do have questions, please do put them in the chat and we will respond to them and let you have the output from the responses as well. I mean, it's really important. We're also, as you know, recording this event because we want colleagues in your councils and others to be able to, sort of, watch and learn from this event too. So, I hope you're content with that too. We're using live captions as well and you can enable these via the live transcripts or the more tab at the bottom of your screen, so please make use of that facility as well today. I would say it's, like, incredible to see so many experienced officer peers joining us today, you know, I think it demonstrates your interest in the importance of sector-led improvement and it's pretty obvious without you and all your energy and knowledge and support it would be impossible for us to deliver the really important programmes that we do for the sector.  

So I just want to start by saying a massive thank you for everything that you do for us in support of our councils. Again, you will probably know more than we do at this point in time how difficult it is to work in a council serving the communities in the way that you would like. Pressures are intense, aren't they? Individual residents, their families are under such huge pressures and councils, I think, continue to do, like, an absolutely extraordinary job in those circumstances. But it's also crucial, even if in these, sort of, pressured times that we do come together and understand, A, actually, how brilliant the sector is and our sector-led improvement work, I think, demonstrates that. But also to learn from each other as well and, again, you would know very well what makes brilliant councils work and you will also have a strong view about how we can help each other to be better. So lots on today but we want to use this moment to give you some, sort of, updates on work that the LGA is doing on your behalf.  

We'll hear from Dennis, our Director for Improvement, about our sector support programme for 2025, '24-'25, and, you know, that is funded by the UK Government, and really important that they are investing in the sector. But also, actually, I think this is a mechanism to continue to prove to government how brilliant that we are. We'll also hear from Heather, our principal advisor for finance and governance who's been leading on our accountability and assurance framework. And she'll talk through, actually, the benefits of, sort of, thinking about, sort of, a robust assurance model for councils and, therefore, our residents. And finally, we'll hear from Gary and from Cindy, who will talk through our strengthed and corporate peer challenge model that is, I think, already, I think, getting some incredible, incredibly positive feedback and, you know, lots of support for its rollout. So I'm just going to hand over to Dennis but, just to say, again, thank you for everything that you do for us and we couldn't do it without you, so thank you. Dennis, over to you.  

Dennis Skinner: Thanks, thanks, Joanna. And also just from me, to reiterate, my big, big thanks to all of you as peers for all the work that you've done for the LGA and for the sector, really. If you move on, Gary, I'll pick up on the next slide at the bottom, I say by the sector and for the sector and, and so that's, that's the, kind of, heart of why we have the, kind of, peer-based approach, because our view is that there's, there's skills and expertise within the sector to support the sector to help the sector get better and I suppose that's what makes us stand out from, you know, other providers of support. Whether they're private sector management consultants or others, at the heart of our model is about facilitating the sector support itself. On this slide, though, I thought it was just helpful to remind people about what we've agreed over the years. We first came out with a set of principles, we've reviewed them and refreshed them over the time, over the period but it first came out over a decade ago and they are largely similar to what we've been using over that period, just updated when we've consulted with people.  

But, kind of, four key elements to it, one, this view that, obviously, councils are responsible for their own performance improvement, that primarily they're accountable to their local communities. Obviously, there are certain things you do which means that you've got accountability mechanisms elsewhere but, primarily, your accountability is to your residence and business communities. And most importantly, the third this is this concept that councils have a collective responsibility for the performance of the sector. So what do I mean by that? Well, you know, we've seen a lot of this recently, haven't we, where, you know, an individual council is facing some significant challenges, it may have-, the government may have decided to go and, and intervene and that has an, an impact on the-, on the view of people across the country about the sector. So it's really important that we are supporting all our colleagues up and down the country in different councils.  

And then finally, in terms of the role of the LGA, our role is to maintain that overview of performance but, importantly, provide tools and support for the sector and a lot of those tools and support are about things that we, kind of, provided to national level. So I just wanted to use the next, sort of, ten minutes or so, just go through a few slides just to outline all the different improvement programmes that we're running for '24-'25. Particularly, I highlight the ones which I think are important for councils and for you as senior officers within the sector but also those offers that are important for you as peers because, you know, we'll be looking and reaching out to you to help us deliver a, a number of these. Next slide please, Gary. So, I just thought it'd be useful just to, kind of, look at how support for the sector led improvements has improved over the last, sort of, decade. We carry out a perception survey of a thousand people, senior officers including chief execs, senior politicians including leaders, but a thousand people from across the sector. And we've been asking a question over the last decade about the extent to which the sector agree with the concept of the sector-led improvement approach. Some really great figures in terms of the improvements to, sort of, buying into this approach.  

So back in 2012, when we first asked the question, only 59% in respondents thought it was the right approach and had the results there for 2023 are now 82%. So, really grateful for the support that the sector has for this, kind of, improvement approach. Next slide please, Gary. So in terms of the '24-'25 programme, many of you will be aware, we're funded from a number of different government departments now, we've moved from funding from just-, from the-, from the department of levelling up and housing and communities to also now getting money from DfE, from DHSE and the Cabinet Office and others. So as we stand currently, there are, sort of, nine main programmes, the first one, which we often refer to as the main improvement programme or the core improvement programme is the main programme from DLUHC and we've recently agreed the 24 25 programme and it covers the five areas that last year's programme covered.  

Governance, leadership, finance, workforce and transformation, and I'll, I'll say a little bit more about that a bit later on. Because I think, at the heart of those programmes is a lot of work which relies upon member and officer peers providing that support. Second one, which is the second largest, is funded by DHSE, which is our partners in care and adults, care and health, which is a programme largely about adult social care. We've only got part funding of that agreed so far, we're currently in the middle of a tendering process with DHSE about the remaining nine months and hopeful that we will receive funding for that. But many of you I know provide support in that programme. I'll say a bit more about children's improvement, planning advisory service, cyber digital and technology a bit later on. But I just wanted to mention a couple of others where we don't make much use of peers at the moment but they're important for the sector. So there's the joint inspection team, so what is? Well, that's the, the team that was created following the Grenfell disaster and it's a programme which helps councils look at the, sort of, safety of high rise buildings.  

So if you are a council that has a number of those in your patch and have not engaged with the joint inspection team, please do, they can be really helpful in helping councils deal with those land laws that perhaps aren't taking forward the, the refurbishment works that need to be done. Next is one public estate, it's now in its tenth year and it's a joint programme with the Cabinet Office and, obviously, it's about rationalising the estate but we do it at the place base level. So, often, it's looking at accommodation or other issues, not just within the local authority but within other public sector partners. And I mention one public estate because, whilst it's a small team, they do have access to tens of millions of pounds to support councils in some of those programmes, there's a programme known as the Brownfield Land Release Fund, which one public estate have been passing out to councils in the last couple of years. Next, procurement sustainability, these two programmes were previously funded by DLUHC but they made the decision that they no longer wanted to fund them.  

But we've been really helpfully supported by, by the Crown Commercial Service, so they are now funding a programme around supporting procurement in councils and sustainability, which was the previous climate change programme. And then finally, we get some funding from Support England for a little programme around culture, leisure and tourism, which is about developing members and officers that have responsibility for those areas. So, coming onto some of the key highlights and, and peer elements to the programme for '24-'25, if we move to the next slide please, Gary. So, the one, the first one you'll obviously all know about, because many of you will have participated in them, but we are looking, again, for this year, doing 100 corporate peer challenge and/or progress reviews, as you know, a couple of years ago, one of the ways we strengthened the peer challenge process is to have a progress review after twelve months and they've been really successful. So that's the programme which probably makes most use of officer and member peers on a regular basis so, once again, that's at the heart of that programme and Gary will say a bit more a bit later on.  

I did, though, just want to highlight that new for the programme this year is that where councils have not got a corporate peer challenge booked in for '24-'25, we're going to have a, what we're calling a conversation from the regional team with those councils to just look at their improvement and support needs. And, and also what more that they might want from, from the LGA. So that's, kind of, new for '24-'25. Another big programme, which I know a lot of you help on is, is peer support generally and mentoring for new leaders and officers. Once again, it's a big programme at the moment, particularly after the recent local government elections where those, once again, quite a lot of change of control. Many of you will make use-, made use of our national graduate development programme, we're extending that this year, we're going to be recruiting at least 250 graduates for the sector but we're also running now programmes for planning graduates and also finance graduates. So please, if you are looking for graduates in those areas, contact us and we'll do our best to find you some suitable graduates.  

New last year but something that we're now looking to now roll out in '24-'25, is this chief executives development programme, which we've done jointly with Solace, obviously, we ran some pilots towards the end of last financial year. So originally, initially going to start aimed at, sort of, new chief executives but we're also looking to procure similar programmes for all the statutory officers and hopefully, if funding allows, for chief executives more generally. In addition, we'll continue to support those programmes through funding them via Solace, the springboard programme and the total leadership programme. So I think we're now putting probably as much resources into officer development as we are in member, member development. We've always had a significant member development officer, which is the next one, the political leadership training officer, but we've definitely added a lot in the officer space. So just on the political leadership training offer, it's, kind of, cradle to grave. So from a be a councillor to leaders programmes will continue to run, over 1,500 politicians make use of that during the year.  

Then finally, something that's coming new to you shortly, once again, we've been delivering this with the sector and with Solace in particular, we piloted it in the north-east but, first time, I think, that I can remember, but a national recruitment campaign and I've got one of those templates behind me about why it's great to work in councils. So, as I say, we piloted it in the north-east but we're now going to do that nationally and hopefully that will help you in your council with some of the capacity and capability issues that we know the councils have got challenges on at the moment. Next slide please, Gary. We're extending our financial support programme, so we have some ex directors of finance, they're known as FISAs, financial improvement sustainability advisors, so once again, our financial resilient programme to support councils is there and ready for you.  

We've got a new offer this year around assurance reviews focusing on capital strategies and business cases because, as we know, capital now is also an important issue, it's not just revenue where there are issues in councils. We did for the very first time I think last year mentoring scheme for chief financial officers. I think the uptake was, was more than we were expecting so we're expending, expanding that for, for the current year. And then a programme which started last year is continuing this year, once again, where we definitely need peers' support is around our transformation. So we're identifying officers and members across the country, up and down in councils, who can support other councils on their transformation programme. So providing peers, doing training and looking at how we can perhaps match councils up with each other to support each other one their transformation journey.  

And then finally, my, my last slide please, Gary. You may be aware that the LGA supports the National Employers' Organisation. You'll have seen this week that the National Employers recently made a pay offer to local government staff, so that's one of the roles that the LGA does and it's an important role that is funded through the DLUHC grant, so that's something just that you need to be aware of. But, in addition, our workforce team provide a lot of HR and employment law support, so if there are issues that you need support on, please contact our, our workforce team. I mentioned there the LG Inform, our award-winning data platform. You'll have seen in the last couple of weeks some issues around Oflog and their data. We think the LG Inform data is, is excellent, it's definitely kept up to date in a way that perhaps the Oflog data isn't. We also think it's a bit more user-friendly, but there's 12,000 metrics there, so if you want to dig down into some of the, the issues facing your council and want to benchmark yourself against others, please keep making use of LG Inform. I think we had 600,000 visits just in the last year.  

I said I'd mention these last three earlier on because, once again, they're areas where we are looking for peers to support us in particular. So, our children's improvement programme is primarily a peer-based programme, we deliver children's peer challenges, we provide mentoring and support for officers and members. In particular, I think this coming year we're spending a lot more time looking at the issues around SEND, and, and many of you will have heard the, the news today on the Today programme about some of the challenges that councils are facing in that-, in that area. So, please, if you've got a children's background and you've not signed up as an officer peer in that area, please do, because we'll be looking for more officer peers. Similarly, planning, we do more peer-based activity as part of the Planning Advisory Service, so we're looking to do more peer challenges in that area, but new this year is a programme to support at least 10, maybe a few more senior planning officers in councils by providing them with, with coaches to, to mentor them.  

And then finally, another very topical issue given some of the issues recently with NRS Healthcare, our cyber, digital and technology team are there to support you. We can deliver 360 reviews, degree reviews which are akin to a peer challenge, but we're expanding our networks, trying to ensure that staff in councils join those networks so we can share information and, and good practice, particularly around AI, obviously, which is really a big issue now facing councils. So, hopefully that's a good run through, all the information and much more is on our website. I just ask you again, if, if you want to engage with any of these pieces of work either as a council or as a peer, please get in your touch with your relevant principal advisor. The details also are on our website and we'll constantly do what we can to support you going forward. Similarly, please get in touch about other areas of support that you would like, because we're keen to keep making the case to, to government about different types of support going forward. Thanks, colleagues.  

Heather Wills: Dennis, we've just got a couple of questions so far in the Q&A, just as a reminder for people if they would like to post any questions, we will cover them throughout the session today. If I can pose the questions that we've got to-, to you so far, so one from Ben in St Helens, 'Will new corporate peer challenges be starting to look at productivity plans and Oflog statistics? And is there any more details in the early conversations mentioned?' I'm not quite sure whether that's the assurance conversations you mentioned or Oflog's early warning conversations, but you might want to mention both of those?  

Dennis Skinner: Yeah, good question, Ben. Obviously, at the heart of the corporate peer challenge is to look at the, sort of, what we consider to be the key building blocks of what makes a good council, so particularly around, kind of, governance and finance and, and leadership. But one of the things that we always do is that we pull off, from our LG Inform website, actually, what we call a headline report, which is slightly more in-depth than the Oflog report, but we'll certainly look at the Oflog report as well. Similarly, I think once a productivity plan's produced, no doubt councils would want to, to share those with us if they were to have a peer challenge, and they'd be part of the, kind of, paperwork that we would look at. So, yeah, they're all, sort of, things, I think, that we would pick up in a-, in a corporate peer challenge. But then on the early conversations, if we're talking about the Oflog, Oflog are still piloting their approach, they've done one pilot in Oxfordshire and are looking to do another pilot in a district, and we are in constant engagement with them talking about those sorts of issues. Thanks, Ben.  

And just in terms of the joint inspection team, good, good suggestion about the title. We will definitely take that back and look at it. Yes, I'm not sure whether you heard what I heard, but yes, it's a team, a small team that can helpfully help councils who particularly have got those high-rise buildings where the, the landlord is perhaps refusing to take the action that's needed in terms of removing cladding and, and making them safe. So, it's a very specialised, technical, sort of, legal team largely, and I definitely encourage those councils where they are struggling with some of those landlords of high-rise buildings to get in contact with us.  

Heather Wills: Okay, I think that's all the questions we've got at the moment, but we'd welcome any questions in the Q&A at any point on any of the presentations this morning, so perhaps, yeah, if they come back and there are other questions for, for Dennis, we can come back to those as we go along. A couple more have come in, Dennis, can you see those?  

Dennis Skinner: Yeah, so, good one on Jane. So, we did have, until last year, a comms improvement programme that was funded by DLUHC, a really successful programme. Unfortunately, they withdrew the funding, but we have kept it going so, apologies, I should have mentioned it at the outset. So, the LGA itself has put some money into that programme and, in addition, we're looking at how we can sometimes get contributions from councils for that support. But, yeah, very, very good point, Jane, but yes, unfortunately, one of the things that DLUHC decided wasn't a priority in terms of them funding it, but we've kept that programme going.  

Heather Wills: And then there's a question about materials for the national recruitment campaign on things that local HR teams can use?  

Dennis Skinner: Yeah, and that's exactly what we're looking to do. These templates, these backdrops that I'm sharing with you now, we're going to be making available to councils up and down the country, and that's part of the, the roll-out now. We provided them in the north-east as part of the pilot and did a major evaluation, and it's been really successful from what we can see, so, yeah, there are discussions going to be taking place with all councils, and particularly the HR departments, to make sure these materials are, are shared widely. So, thank you for that.  

Heather Wills: Great, thanks, Dennis. Shall I perhaps kick off with, with my presentation? But, as I say, we'll pick up any other questions that has come through throughout the session, if, if that's okay. So, just bear with me, please, while I start sharing my screen and click the right buttons. There we go. Okay, just checking, has that come up okay on screen? Colleagues hopefully will tell me if that's an issue with that, but hopefully you can-,  

Dennis Skinner: All good, Heather, all good.  

Heather Wills: Thank you very much, appreciate that. So, yes, I'm going to be talking about the work that we've been doing to develop what we're calling a local government improvement and assurance framework. As Joanna said at the beginning there, it's a really important area, how do we, in our councils, help us, ourselves to understand that we've got the right things in place to keep ourselves and the councils and the services that we provide to residents safe and secure? So, the background of why we're doing this work is partly to help people understand, what is it that we mean when we talk about assurance and, and how do you go about it? And as Dennis has been saying, it's very much about supporting improvement, helping councils to be effective in the work that they do, and ultimately also to help residents and businesses to hold councils to account. This is about local democracy and local authorities are primarily accountable locally to their, their local residents, so it's about having the tools to enable that.

We've focused mainly on what are the areas of corporate governance and assurance and accountability, because there are so many in relation to any individual services that it could be, you know, too great a task to try and capture all of them. But we do very much recognise that performance at service level is absolutely crucial, and a sign of good governance and assurance is where service performance is, is gripped and owned and managed and constantly improved. And, conversely, if there is a failure in a service, then that can be a failure of assurance and, and governance that didn't grip it and, and weren't cited on what was happening. You might think that there would have been something that would have said, 'These are all the things that local authorities should be doing to have good assurance of their services,' but there wasn't anything that pulled it all together in one place previously. There were lots of separate bits and pieces, expectations from different bodies, different bits of legislation, professional practice, and there is support and guidance out there, but previously it hasn't really been coordinated or brought together in one place.  

So, that's what we've been working to do with the sector to understand what's out there and what's needed. We had two rounds of extensive engagement over the last year, thank you to all of the councils that we spoke to as, as part of that, and we've been working really closely with CIPFA, Solace and Lawyers in Local Government, who've formed a sounding board with us and we've been testing out ideas, and they've been contributing along the way. And what we're aiming to do is really to bring together and make connections with all the various programmes, such as the ones that Dennis has just been talking about, and activities with partners. So that as they're learning about what good assurance activity looks like, it is fed through into all of our programmes of training and develop support for councillors, for officers, and you can see it fed through to all of our tools and resources that we produce. And we are now just at the final stages of having something that will go to our improvements innovation board next week, and we aim to publish on our website ASAP after that.

What we've learned along the way from the conversations with people is, yes, there are lots of technical things and mechanisms, processes, approaches that councils could and should be doing routinely, but, actually, it's about culture, it's about behaviours, it's about the relationships between key roles. And so, you know, yes, it's important to know what the bits and pieces are that should be happening, but, fundamentally, this is about the way that we behave with each other, and so in the training and development that we'll be doing with, through our various programmes, that emphasis on culture will be crucial, and leadership. Assurance is also something about the whole organisation, it is activities that happen across the system and happen continuously throughout the year, and so it needs coordination and it needs oversight. 

So, what we're aiming to map in the framework that we'll be publishing are there are some wiring diagrams that show you all the bits and pieces. There will also be links to good practice and guidance and tools produced not just by the LGA but whoever is relevant to do so, and links to the various support offers that are there to help us all. It is also important to acknowledge that there are some elements that aren't working as well as they-, as they could or should be, and obviously external audit is one of the obvious examples of that at the moment, and it's a really crucial part of the assurance framework. And, therefore, it's important that we recognise that where that isn't working well, we need to have extra measures in place to be thinking about how do we manage risk, how do we understand where our, our performance is and what needs improvement?

This isn't just about the LGA working with councils, professional bodies also have really important roles to play here, particularly in relation to qualification, standard setting, and around the accountability of, officers as well. I should have just mentioned in that previous point as well, challenges about officer capacity is also a real challenge in the system at the moment, and Dennis mentioned the work that we're doing around recruitment into the local government sector. Challenges in relation to, say, audit and finance capacity can, can also impede councils' ability to, to do assurance well, and we need to be mindful of that and mitigating the risks around that. We won't get it all right in this first version of the framework that we're about to be publishing. We know that we will keep iterating it, we'll keep improving it, people's feedback will be really helpful and we'll keep improving it as we go, we'll keep reviewing it.  

And one of the key things that people asked us when we were talking to them about the development of the framework and, you know, what is it, what does it need to be, is, was about, 'Well, how does this make sense with what we're doing on assurance, what the corporate peer challenge is? What's happening with the best value standards which have now been finalised, where does Oflog come in, government intervention and so on?' And so we've developed some descriptions that I'm just going to share with you, that hopefully help to set out how we think all these things fit together. So, and this is wording that comes direct from, from the framework that we're about to publish. So, it's about recognising that at any one time every council in the country is at a point on, on a range. The ones that are doing best at that time are the ones that have a really good understanding of where they're at, what their performance strengths are and where they need to develop, and every organisation should be looking to continuously improve, obviously, and they're looking for how they can do that. But that awareness is crucial, and it is a joint endeavour between both elected members and officers to do that, and they take the appropriate actions to assure themselves that things are being done correctly.  

And the best value standards, and I realise I prepared this presentation before those were finalised, the best value standards do set out some really useful indicators of the things that should be working, you know, at a well-functioning authority. Similarly, the indicators of potential failure are flags that say, actually, things aren't working as well as they should. And, essentially, if you're not delivering best value, it's because the governance hasn't been there to ensure that that happens, and that focus on continuing to look to how to move to great is crucial. But then at the other end of the continuum, we see, and we see, I'm sure, in the work that you do with, with councils in your, your officer peer role, there are some, a small minority of authorities that don't have that self-awareness and aren't proactively looking to continuously improve, don't have the assurance arrangements in place, and ultimately that can lead to statutory intervention. And, obviously, authorities move in and out of intervention over periods of time.  

And so the LGA is working with individual councils and regional groupings and professional bodies to support people to stay out of that intervention space, and we believe that it is for local authorities themselves to take responsibility for their own improvement and their-, and their own assurance. And we know that corporate peer challenge is one of the ways in which people can get that external perspective on how well they're doing things. So, in the nicest possible way to our central government and Oflog colleagues, we want to take action ourselves, in the sector, so that intervention and detailed attention by Oflog isn't needed and that's in the end what we're looking for.  

Just a quick flick through of what to expect in the, the framework when we, we publish it, we've got a bit of a description there about what we mean about assurance and it is about having an evidenced-based approach to really ensuring that you know that things are working as they should, you've got the right procedures in place and they actually work in practice. Also, thinking about accountability, that outward-facing focus, so make sure that residents and businesses can hold their local authority to account. We're looking in detail about what are all those different components of the framework and how do they work in practice. There's a bit of a discussion about the three lines, which is a-, kind of, an audit term about, 'What are those areas of, of defence,' as they were once called, that managers do, that oversight does and then, external assurance does. And we've developed some principles around how do you make this work in practice and what good looks like and throughout, you've got links to tools and support. Things that we've done already while we've been developing this framework, Gary will talk, in a bit, about how we've strengthened the Corporate Peer Challenge.  

Dennis mentioned the chief executives development programme and one of the things we're aiming to do is to ensure that the learning that we've got in this framework will be fed through into the development programme, so that people get the opportunity to think, both chief execs, monitoring officers and section 151 officers, in their development programmes, how this works in practice and what their-, what their role is in it. We continue to provide training for senior members, both in our mainstream programmes but also, some new programmes around leading good governance and assurance. We're capturing case studies all the time, people, I think, find it really helpful to see, 'Well, how does this work in practice?' And we will be-, continue to produce new guidance and tools. I mentioned that we are working with CIPFA and with Lawyers in Local Government in particular, around their leadership development programmes and tying all this in together. There are some other useful developments happening in other areas, if you haven't seen it yet, CIPFA Solace and Lawyers in Local Government consulted on a draft code of practice for how the golden triangle of chief execs, section 151s and monitoring officers should work together and I understand a final version of that will be produced in the, the next month or so. CIPFA are also reviewing guidance on annual governance statements, which is an absolutely fundamental point-, part of the process of checking that you've got the things in place that you should have.  

And I don't think everywhere necessarily does that as well as they could and I think there's a-, this is a really helpful opportunity to-, for CIPFA to support people with that a bit more. And there is also guidance on the internal audit standards, again, probably doesn't get the attention that it needs to and that those are being updated too. So, we will, very soon, early June, publish the revised version of the framework and will be-, we'll be talking about more widely. We will, additionally, then publish some versions that are more user-friendly for members and the public, much shorter versions, continuing to develop these tools and offers. We'll be talking much more about this at LGA conference, as you'd expect, thinking about, 'What do councils do, themselves, to keep themselves safe?' And we'll be thinking, within the chief exec session, about that role of the golden triangle and how they work together a bit more. And if you haven't seen it yet, there is also a Committee for Standards in Public Life enquiry, at the moment, about accountability within public bodies. We'll be submitting evidence to that and you might want to take a look at that as well and feed it-, make sure your council is feeding in too. Just finally, I wanted to pull out some points for you to consider when you are doing work with us as officer peers, you know, what comes out of this, what are the things that are relevant to the assurance framework, that you could be considering when you're maybe on a peer challenge or perhaps you're doing some mentoring or some bespoke work.  

Hopefully, they're also questions for you to-, that are useful for you to take into your own council and to consider in your work there. So, I mentioned the, the annual governance statement, reviewing the effectiveness of your controls, is that a really robust and open and honest review? The-, I think the best councillors use that as an opportunity to really be open about what needs to improve and to ensure that they've got appropriate actions in place to, to address areas where those controls, elements of governance aren't working as they should be. Risk management, absolutely fundamental, is risk management happening at a strategic level? Do people understand, at every level in their organisation, what good risk management looks like? Is there a shared understanding between members and officers? Sometimes that is-, doesn't always line up. Use of data, it was mentioned a question earlier, absolutely fundamental. Does the authority use data? Is its work evidence-based? And that includes, obviously, benchmarking as well, around, yeah, understanding how well it performs in relation to others. The point about leadership, fundamental to all of this, is a culture of a good governance, led from the top of the organisation, by the leader and the chief executive. Internal audit is a fundamental resource, it should be being used to provide challenge but also to ask questions and provide advice. Are they being brought in by the golden triangle regularly to look at things that need more attention?  

Audit and scrutiny committees, fundamentally important, don't always perform the role that we need them to and so, again, are they working as well as they should is a, you know, key area to look at on a Corporate Peer Challenge. And the angle about transparency because this-, so much of this goes back to, you know, one of the fundamentals of good governance and we do see, in areas where there have been issues, that the authority hasn't always been transparent. So, things to look out for, you know, are, there are lots of reports on the part B agenda, are they not published? Or if there are decision-making reports, are they intelligible to the layperson or the general public? How good is public engagement in scrutiny? How good is member engagement in scrutiny, for example? And community engagement and engagement with service users, again, absolutely fundamental. All of these things are reflected in the questions that you're prompted to consider when you are doing a Corporate Peer Challenge. I encourage you all to look out for them, to look for evidence and obviously, you're going to be triangulating at every step of the way, with all the other intelligence that you receive. So, I'm going to stop screen-sharing there and come back to the, the main display, thank you. And I wonder if we've had any questions that-, in relation to that presentation.  

Gary Hughes: Hi Heather. Yes, there are a couple of questions in the-, in the Q&A there, I'm not sure if you can multitask, I'm afraid I can't but if you can, I'll leave you to pick those up and respond. And there's also a couple of questions that Dennis answered as well that we may want to just reflect on, some really good questions.  

Heather Wills: Brilliant, thank you. Yes, I can see that list there. So, yes, the question from Josie about further support for leadership develop for chief internal auditors. So, we are working very closely with the Institute for Internal Audit and, and, and looking with them. So, in the first instance, we're, we're working closely with, with CIPFA in relation to section 151 officer work. You'll know, obviously, CIPFA have a role in both their, their guidance for internal auditors as well but I do-, I do anticipate that we'll take-, we'll look into the leadership development side for auditors too, as the next step and, and thank you for that reminder to make sure that we do. And yes, absolutely, there will be references to scrutiny and Centre for Governance and Scrutiny resources. And, as I mentioned, one of the opportunities that the framework has given us is to signpost to resources, training, guidance, that is provided by others, it's not all just about the, the LGA and, and, I mean, from the funding that we get from governance to provide our sector support programme, we commission that-, Centre for Governance and Scrutiny to provide direct support and, and training but there is much more that they do as well and they're a absolutely key provider of support, definitely. On the combined authorities question, 'Is the framework applicable to combined authorities', a large part of it is. Obviously, the-, there is the English Devolution Accountability Framework that is a fundamental, kind of, starting point for that.  

We have also just produced some guidance on good governance for combined authorities and the framework points to that as well but it is interesting to see that Gareth Davies from National Audit Office suggested that there may be scope to focus more on the needs of assurance of combined authorities in, in, in, in future, that perhaps it needs further strengthening and we'll be pleased to, to work with them more on that. So-, but yes, the-, a lot of the general principles that are identified in the framework would absolutely apply everywhere and are part of, you know, what we would discuss with combined authorities when we work with them. Question about the-, 'How does this framework work with the CIPFA Solace framework for Good Governments [sic]?' That, again, is one of the key resources that the framework points to. So, at the point when you are conducting your annual review of the effectiveness of your governance, which is one of the parts of the assurance framework, then you should absolutely be using that CIPFA Solace framework for Good Governance. And that's the, the guidance that CIPFA are looking at updating to support people more in the preparation for their annual governance statements. One of the things that I know they are keen to be clearer about is that it's really important for councils to have their own local code of governance which sets out how this all works in their local council. And then, for their annual review of governance and the, the annual governance statement, to really test out, 'Yes but how does this work in practice and what are the bits that we need to improve?' And that's what the, the updated guidance will, will refer to.  

Question about referencing councils that have the, the committee system, yes, absolutely, we have, I think, tested, as far as we can, every point of the way being clear about where, 'This is it how it applies to committee system councils.' If there is anything, when you look at it and you think, 'Well, actually, that doesn't quite work,' please let us know, we will keep iterating it and keep improving it but yeah, hopefully, we, we have covered that angle, absolutely. And then, the point from Sonia about, 'How do we ensure our peers have the right understanding and skill set to know what, what good looks like?' Yes, this is a, a constant process and today's a helpful step about of that officer peers and I know Gary takes this through to the briefings that we do with officer peers. It is also part of our, our support for member peers as well and we had a really helpful-, we have a conference, an annual conference, for member peers and we had one last year with them, where we started to explore with them and I'm sure we will do more with our member peers as well, as well as including it in our, our, our general training and development for, for councillors too, very much so. Your point about the, the, the capacity issues in relation to the budget crisis, is, is, is an important one and I think we say, generally, in the framework, that this stuff is so much more difficult in the context of the financial challenges that councils are facing. Yeah, we absolutely recognise that and, you know, we need-, we need to be honest about that.  

I'll, I'll, I'll give Gary the opportunity to just reflect on maybe how that is considered in, in Corporate Peer Challenges as, as well. Question mark on the timescale for the new CIPFA guidance on-, I presume that's on the annual governance statement and the, the framework for Good Governance. I'm really keen to see it, I keep encouraging them to, to do it. They have started the process, I think they imagine that they're going to be doing it over the course of this calendar year. Whether or not you'd have it if you are doing your annual governance statement now and, and in the-, in the coming months, I-, I'm, I'm afraid not but, you know, any, any thoughts on questions that you might have, as you are going through your, your process of conducting that review, again, we're very pleased to help you with that and can, can think about some of the things that we're talking to CIPFA about, that will be reflected in the new guidance. And I see the point about an officer peer annual conference would be good, I will throw that one back to, to Gary as well. Gary, is there anything that I've missed?  

Gary Hughes: There was a couple of questions in there that Dennis answered. I just thought, you know, really good points about demonstrating the impact of Corporate Peer Challenge and how that can, you know, support councils going forward. So, you know, Dennis has put a really good response in there but absolutely right, we need to do some more work in that, that area as well. I think, you know, the point that you mentioned, Heather, was a really good one, is that Corporate Peer Challenge is one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. So, we need to look at it in the round but, you know, fair challenge there and we'll certainly be taking that forward. There's also a question about becoming a peer as well and I can certainly pick that up later in the conversation. And we've got some real experts in on the call, as well, who can answer those thoroughly than I can, so yep. And yeah, absolutely, officer peer annual conference, yeah, thinking that through already, it's really helpful.  

Heather Wills: Great stuff. Well, in which case, I think, maybe, Gary, if I hand over to you but if any further questions come on later on about the assurance framework, I'll obviously be keen to-, happy to come dive back in and answer but over to you, Gary.  

Gary Hughes: Great. Thank you, Heather. And unfortunately I'm a typical male, so I can't do slides, look at the questions and answers and, and present at the same time, so I've got my colleague, Cindy, helping me here as well. So, thank you all, and some really, really good questions coming through and also, some fair challenge as well. I thought Peter's first point in there about, you know, 'What's the real difference with the strengthened and Corporate Peer Challenge?' And hopefully, we'll try and bring some of that to, to light, but what I would say to all of you, as chief execs and officers in councils, don't forget your regional teams, they can really bring this to life for you and, and can have a much more localised conversation about what this means for your council. I'm going to start off like everybody else did, with a huge thank you, and also, some stats there as well, which, you know, I, I just think I, I just want to reference. The thing I want to just go back to Dennis' point and, and to reassure colleagues that Corporate Peer Challenge has not suddenly morphed into an inspection process, it is still underpinned by the principles of sector-led improvement. And, I think, now, it is even more important, as the sector, for the sector, that we take that collective responsibility and as peers, you're confident and capable of delivering hard messages but also, as officers in councils, we're also open to receive those messages as well because I think it's better that we do it for ourselves, rather than anybody else doing it for us.  

We know the sector the best and having, personally, worked with many people who are on the webinar now, I can say that, you know, we're definitely up for the challenge, as the sector. So, it feels very positive and it feels like we're in a good place with Corporate Peer Challenge as well, despite some of the threats that we face but again, just, just some stats here, I think this first one's quite interesting. I'll let you do the maths on this one but we, you know, we did some rough calculations about, you know, 'How much would this cost if, if, you know, if people wanted to pay for the peer support that they're getting?' And, you know, we've got a rough figure here of about £1.5m annually we save the sector. And for me, as well, that's using quite a, you know, conservative day rate but also, it doesn't take into account the fantastic input and feedback we get from peers. And peers, you as peers, you understand what it's like to be out there, the challenges you face in your, your own council. And, and, you know, that-, the challenge earlier about, 'What does good look like,' I thought was a good one but we also know this is-, in our day job, we're all striving for improvement. So, for me, that, that, that cost figure is really interesting and we're going to look at how we can, sort of, demonstrate value for money around Corporate Peer Challenge and peer support this next year as well.  

Really important for us, as well, we, we have diverse teams and as you can see there, you know, we're looking at a-, nearly a 50/50 split on, on gender breakdown. You know, I'm gonna put our hands up and say there's still some work to do around our diversity of our-, of our peers but, you know, like the sector, we're working on that as well. And just some, some, some stats there from our recent tranche of survey information. It's always worrying when we get 100% because the only way is down, shall we say, but 100% of chief exec and leaders said that the process of preparing for and participating in a corporate peer challenge has had a positive impact on their council. You know, that's qualitative data, we absolutely need that quantitive data to demonstrate that further but, straight away, chief execs, leaders receiving corporate peer challenge really value it. Flipping that over as well, and our peers say that taking part in a peer challenge isn't an impact on their own learning and development, and we know budgets are tight, you know, often training and development is one of those areas that gives. Being on a peer team is a really, really great opportunity to improve your own professional development.  

So, some positive feedback there, but we're not complacent, we're still continuing to drive this, and we move onto the next slide, Cindy, I'll just, sort of, talk through some of the stages of our corporate peer challenge, and hopefully bring to life some of those differences. I'll also as well, when we get to the, sort of, nitty-gritty, hand over to Cindy, who is one of our peer challenge managers. So, she's out there working, delivering these, and can really talk from a practitioner's perspective about what the changes mean on the ground and what it will be me-, what it will mean for peers as well. So, corporate peer challenge, it's been going now for a number of years. So, we suddenly haven't flicked the switch and said, 'The new corporate challenge is-, has changed and strengthened.' This strengthening has been developmental and it's been going on over a period of time. So, those colleagues on the call now that may have delivered a corporate peer challenge in the last six months or so will have experienced some of those changes, but hopefully I can-, I can bring those to life for those of you that haven't.  

Five key stages. Scoping, preparation, on-site, host on-site and, and our progress review. I'll quickly go to the scoping stage, so Cindy, if you just want to flip the slides. Great. Now, we've always had these, these discussions around the scope and focus of a corporate peer challenge, but I would say now that they are much more robust, much more rigorous and much more structured as well. So, we're very clear from the outset, both engaging the managerial and political leadership of the council, to understand the scope and focus of the forthcoming corporate peer challenge. We've got a clear focus now on five core elements of every corporate peer challenge. Dennis mentioned earlier, they are the core components of a good council, and Cindy will touch upon those later. We talk about the timing, but also the duration of the peer challenge as well. With opportunities, if needed, to extend and to make sure that we, you know, we're able to cover-, to provide adequate coverage as well. A really important part of that scoping meeting is to understand the skills and the experience required for the peers. What we're also going to do, we're going to very much now avoid councils selecting their own peer team. You know, straight away, you know, you could be accused of it being cozy or you're picking your friends.  

So, those conversations now are less about individuals, but they are about places that are doing good, you know, those good councils, you want to learn from, but most importantly the skills, the expertise that you need to be on a-, on a peer team, so that we can go through our, our peer database and identify the right people. And I'll just touch briefly, in a little while on, on, you know, peer selection and how you become a peer as well. Another area is, setting out from the offset the clear approach and expectations of having a corporate peer challenge. There are clear expectations around publishing, production of a-, publishing a report, production of an action plan, and also having a, a progress review within a twelve month-, twelve month period. So, we expect sign-up from those and an understanding of what they mean, and some of the principles of those right from the start, start as well.  

We're clear about the documents we require as a peer team, and most importantly now, rather than that, sort of, you know, looking back document of a self-assessment, more of a position statement. Where are you now as a council? What is your story? What are the challenges you're facing? What are your priorities and where can the peer team most help you best? It's a really important document, so we talk about that position statement. How you can bring the council's story to life. And then obviously we get into the practical arrangements. When we're going to be on-site, rooms, all of that stuff that we need. And we confirm all of this in a detailed scoping document. So, straight from the off-set the council is clear about the terms of engagement, but also that, that acts as a contractual agreement between the peer team and the council as well. So, right from the start, really clear about the scope, the focus and what the expectations are of that-, of that corporate peer challenge. Because often when we've seen a corporate peer challenge that hasn't gone as well as it could, it's because we haven't been clear right from the outset what is required, and both the peer team and the council have gone, gone into it with mixed views. So, it's massively important that that scoping, scoping conversation happens and it happens well.  

I'll just pause there as well, just reference, once we've done the scoping document we'll have a-, we will have a clear understanding of the peer requirements. So, what type of skills is that council after, what is the political make-up of that council, and that's when our peer sourcing kick in. And those who have been involved in, in our peer engagement will know, you know, how, how the engagement with Alex, Ged, Alison and Frankie, and their our small team that do this sourcing. And what we do, we have a very complex CRM database, but the key information we need from you as peers is a really up-to-date peer profile. That's what we search against, that's what we use for our keyword searches. But we also, as well, is engage in our regional teams as well to, to make sure we're getting the right peers for the right place as well, and that's really important to us as well. In terms of wanting to become a peer, speak to your principal advisor. Again, all of the details are on the website. Or you can drop one of the team a line and just express your interest, and we have a-, we have a form you need to fill in, and obviously we collect equalities data as well. But that peer selection process, we need to make sure open and transparent, and whether we're getting the right people for the right place as well.  

I'll move onto the next stage. Thanks, Cindy. So, again, a stage that's, that's been in place for a while now but I-, for me, this stage has really strengthened and really been enhanced now. And, and this-, we can't stress the importance now of focusing on data information and evidence. And as part of our preparation and engagement stage, we will provide a data and information pack. And this includes information from the council, so a position statement and some of those key supporting documents. Again, we don't want to be overly burdensome, so these documents should be available, should be accessible, and we, we certainly don't want the wet ink approach where councils will write a strategy for us. There's no point in it. You know, we're, we're looking at existing documents that are out there. And it's better to say that this-, this strategy, this plan is in development and share it as a draft with peers, rather than trying to pretend that you've-, you know, you've bottomed it out.  

So we get a whole load of data from the council and, again, what we try and do within the peer team is, sort of, divvy that up so that you don't have to read everything. You know, we'll look at allocation of documentation, so we can, you know, ensure that that, that work is spread evenly throughout the team. We also have some new information from the LGA as well. And, again, there was a question earlier about the Oflog data sets. Again, I'll stress this. We use LG Inform in the LGA. I would say this, I'm slightly biased, but I think LG Inform is better than the Oflog Data Explorer. And, actually, we've got all the data that Oflog use in LG Inform as well. So, we've got, as Dennis said, a headline report that we use for every corporate peer challenge, that picks up a whole suite of performance data, benchmarking data, which includes Oflog data, but has others as well, that we review as part of our peer team as well.  

So, again, key point, we look at that data. And then we have a financial briefing as well, and Dennis mentioned our FISAs. We can often invite the FISA in to, you know, bring that financial briefing to life, for, for those of us who are non-finance experts it's often helpful to have someone to be able to bring that to life and identify-, to identify where we might want to look as a peer team, where we might want to probe further. We share both of that information with the council, and if they've got something more up to date, we, we encourage them to share that back as well. So, it's not about making a judgement on that data, it's about having a conversation. But that data and information pack, really important. It also includes, as well, a desk review of governance data. So, you heard Heather talking about the assurance, so a, a peer challenge manager, Cindy and colleagues, as part of their, their pre-work, they will go through a lot of information the council have sent over, to identify that, sort of, key assurance information. So, audit reports, you know, annual governance statements, you know, examples of cabinet meetings, committee meetings. All of that information, they'll do a desk review and provide that information so we can review, check and challenge it as well.  

We also encourage, as well, some pre-engagement with the council. So, as peers, you may be asked to reach out to, if you're a chief exec peer reach out to your chief exec. You know, informal introduction, build that trust, build that relationship before you get on site. Again, we encourage our political peers to do that as well. And what I'd say as well now, in most peer teams we're finding that we have peers that are councillors from a number of political parties. I did a corporate peer challenge not long ago and we had three councillors on the team from Labour, Lib Dem and Independent-, Green Group as well, because that replicated the make-up of the council that was in overall control. So, again, we encourage you as officers and members to reach out to the-, to, to your opposite member and, you know, make that introduction and just to try and build that trust as well.  

And the final element of that preparation and engagement stage is a online peer team briefing. This is a key milestone in the process. So, approximately two weeks before the on-site session, our peer challenge managers will bring the whole team together. And, again, that's great, you can actually meet the team beforehand, get to know them, you know, get that engagement going, but there's also an opportunity to undertake a real detailed briefing. And, as I mentioned, you know, we can bring some of this performance, this financial information to life and really talk through that. It's also an opportunity to share early thoughts, but, again, not make judgement. I always look at doing a corporate peer challenge like a jigsaw puzzle but without the box. So, we're putting those pieces together, and I'd say with the data and information, and that early engagement, we're starting to build the pieces but we've got a long way to go before we get to understanding what that picture is. I think I'll pause there and, again, hand over to Cindy now, who's going to talk about some of the on-site elements, what this means for you as peers. Thank you, Cindy.  

Cindy Lowthian: Thank you, Gary. It's great to be on the call today, particularly I was looking at the participation list and I can see many of you, not all of you, I've worked with and I've been delighted to work with. So, Gary's just asked me, as a peer challenge manager, I suppose, to try and breathe life into some of the information he's just shared about our strengthened corporate peer challenge approach and what it's actually like while we are on-site together as a peer team. I think, first of all, I think it's important to say, for me, the strengthened approach to corporate peer challenge whilst we're on-site is really informed by all that that Gary has talked about, in terms of strengthened approach to the way we're preparing and engaging with councils and you, as peers, in the lead-up to the corporate peer challenge.  

So, whilst we're on site, we maintain the focus that has been agreed in the scope that Gary talked about, with the council, on these five core elements of every peer challenge. And it's no surprise to experienced colleagues on the call today that those five key areas are the key areas that you would look at for the health of a council, the health of an organisation. So, those five key areas for those experienced peers on the team have remained, as they have been for, for, you know, for peer challenges that you've already done, but within and underneath each heading the stronger structured approach that Gary's been talking about is evident. In terms of the, sort of, guidance we're providing to you as peers, the suggested lines of enquiry and some of the key evidence documents. So, we are asking for, in advance, that Heather also talked about, in relation to governance and culture, and also new guidance, or strengthened guidance, that we now share with councils around their preparation, in terms of the documentation they provide us. So, Heather mentioned, didn't she, some of the key documentation around assurance, governance and culture.  

So, my job, as a peer challenge manager, in advance of our time together on site, is to ensure that we, as a team, receive some of this key documentation. Including, and Gary's mentioned it, the annual governance statement, the latest annual audit letter, the latest value for money statement, the council's approach to risk, the council's approach to performance management, key performance comparative measures, our LG Inform report, a detailed finance report. So, all that documentation and preparation that we've talked about is informing these five key lines of enquiry while we are on site. So, we will have had together, we will have had the peer team online briefing and we will have brought much of that to our pre-online peer briefing. So, you'll have an opportunity as peers, as a peer team, to share your early reflections on that evidence, documentation and position statement from the council. And then we will use that and, plus the pre-conversations that peers have had with chief execs, and leaders and their counterparts at the council, to begin to think about the key lines of enquiry or the, the key sort of information that we want to look further at whilst we're together on site. So, we're spending three to four days together, we're triangulating against all five key lines of enquiry.  

Cindy Lowthian: The key information that we want to look further at whilst we're together on site. So, we're spending three to four days together, we're triangulating against those five key lines of enquiry. We have a timetable. And like I say, the new strengthened approach when we're working with councils outlines those that we must see, so it's consistent. We are always asking to see chairs of audit, overview scrutiny chairs, the leader, the chief execs, statutory officers. We have a list now to build consistency of those that we would always expect to see whilst we're on site, plus the suggested list. And that can be tailored to the particular areas of focus for the corporate peer challenge, that we've agreed as part of that scoping that Gary talked about. So, we're constantly triangulating together. You as peers challenge me as a peers challenge manager to ensure that as part of the timetable that we have and those people that we're seeing, we have time to triangulate because that's really important that we've got time together as a team to talk about what we're hearing and what we've read and to begin to build those key messages of robust feedback that we're going to be providing to the council on the final day. Again, at the end of every day while we are on site together. The lead chief exec peer and the lead member peer, alongside myself, will meet with the chief exec and leader at the council to feedback what we've found at the end of each day. And again, that's the principle of no surprises, so that when we give our final feedback at the very end of the peer challenge that there's no surprises for the council, we've kept them informed throughout.  

And then finally, going to that final feedback, my job as a peer challenge manager is to support you as a peer team based on everything that Gary and I have talked about, to have, I suppose, the confidence, the evidence, the triangulation to be able to deliver those messages to the council that are going to support the improvement, that are evidence-based, that can help provide assurance and sometimes, you know, delivering difficult messages. And it's my job as a peer challenge manager to support you as a peer team and be able-, being able to do that. And again, as a scoping phase that Gary talked about as a corporate peer challenge, we will always make it clear to the chief exec and leader, that's, that's what it's about and, you know, they may have to hear difficult messages as part of the corporate peer challenge feedback. And then finally, before I move onto my final slide, there's also improved, sort of, consistency in terms of the way we give feedback on site now as part of the strengthened and corporate challenge. So, we have a consistent approach to the type of information that we're populating on the slides. There is now a new slide, if you like, that just focuses on performance. So, as a peer team, we will share our reflections on the council's own performance management framework, how the, sort of, using the data and intelligence and also feeding in some of that comparative performance information that we've already looked at as a team based on the LG inform report that we talked about. So, I'll just pause there and then I'll move onto the next slide.  

So, we've done all that. We've fed back to the council the key messages on our final day. And then I as a peer challenge manager, I am required to liaise with you, work with you and lead on preparing the final report. And again, the strengthened corporate peer challenge approach has evolved, and Gary and I have been very busy with this. We've done refresh training for all our peer challenge managers on, sort of, delivering difficult messages and we are also-, we've started work on improved, sort of, working with peer challenge managers on refresher training on report writing, and we're building on that with some more dedicated sessions over the next month. The report is prepared by me as a peer challenge manager. And again, the emphasis on that is a focus on everything we're saying in the report, you know, that we are confident that we can evidence that, from what we've heard, what we've read, what we've been told. There are clear requirements as part of the strengthened report-, strengthened approach around publication and around the timescales leading up to that. So, the ask of you as the peer team is to work with me to-, so that I can produce the report in a timely way, get your comments, it's quality assured by the LGA, so we've got a new strengthened quality assurance process within the LGA for our reports. And then it's shared with the council. And I think the key point here is that the report was shared with the council for factual inaccuracies only. So, that's addressing that, I suppose, that misconception that, that reports can be altered, that it's not favourable. We're very clear that, you know, if the council wants to come back on something within our report, it has to be based on, sort of, the evidence and the factual accuracy of our messages.  

And then, again, a key requirement of the strengthened approach is that councils are required to produced, once the report has been finalised, they're required to publish that report within in agreed timescales, that is three months of our time of site. They are also asked to produce an action plan showing how they will respond to the recommendations. And again, in the spirit of openness and transparency to publish that. And then we are also, as part of our strengthened approach, we undertake a progress review around ten months after our time on site, and again, the progress review we've strengthened the consistency of approach. So, progress reviews now will take place in person at the council. They usually take place over one day. They would usually involved the chief exec peer, the lead member peer and myself as a peer challenge manager. But they can involve other members of the peer team as appropriate depending on, you know, what we found during our corporate peer challenge. And the progress review really provides time and space for the council to feedback to us as peers how they've implemented the recommendations. And again, leading up to the progress review, that same structured, robust approach that we would expect of councils in terms of how they're preparing that, the documentation they're providing to us as a peer team which includes the requirement to produce a RAG rated action plan showing how-, a RAG rating against their own action plan. And that is shared with you, by me as a peer team. And again, the progress review we require the council to publish that report, again, in the spirit of openness and transparency. And the progress review reports and the corporate peer challenge reports will both now be published on the LGA's website from this year. Previously we've always published the CPC report on our website, but we're now building on that and we're also publishing the progress review reports on our website.  

So, I'm now going to pass on to Gary. And I can see there's Q&A in the chat, so I'll be having a look at those while Gary continues. Thank you everyone.  

Gary Hughes: Thanks Cindy. So, colleagues, a lot to cover there isn't it. And what, what I will say, we're continually learning and improving what we do. And I think that's been the ethos of corporate peer challenge over the last ten, ten years or so. What I'd say as well is that there's-, you know, we can cover a lot more information here. So, what I'm going to do is just flag that there's going to be a programme of in-person training for officer peers. We're going to deliver those over, you know, a full day in person on site, and, you know, as you can appreciate, we'll really get under the skin of this means. So, if anybody's a little unsure and wants to, you know, a bit more briefing, a bit more understanding, then please look out for the dates for the training. But as with everything, lots of information out there. One of the things I would say, you know, talk to you regional teams, your principal advisor, if you've got more information. If you want more information about it. And also, what does this locally mean for you. We've got our new website with FAQs on there as well, and we'll be circulating these slides, so you'll be able to use the hyperlinks. As I mentioned, programme of online and in-person training that's going to be happening this year. We're going to be doing sessions at the LGA conference, Heather and Dennis have got a plenary session, and we're running a session in the improvement-, innovation zone as well, so, again, opportunities to engage. It was mentioned earlier about our work with Solace and again, that's an important new area that we're developing. And we're looking at how being on a corporate peer challenge can become part of continuing professional development for Solace members. And, you know, if you're on one of the springboard schemes or something like that should, you know, being a peer be part of your development opportunity as well. And as I mentioned, we're always can-, you know, learning here, always seeking to improve ourselves.  

So, we're going to do what we're calling a temperature check exercise. So, after our first ten corporate peer challenges of '24, '25, we've got a couple of focus groups with the lead peers and the member peers as well, so, an opportunity to understand how, how did it feel, what went well, what could be improved. So, lots of work underway over this coming year. We never finish, you know, it's a continuous improvement journey. You can guarantee that next year there will be some tweaks and changes we made as the sector continually adapts. And obviously, you know, the point that that Heather made earlier about this, sort of, assurance framework, how we-, how corporate peer challenge fits with best value, Oflog, that's still to run through. But as I said, feel confident, I think the sector is up for it, you know, as we've seen today, really good attendance of colleagues who are interested in getting involved. So, onwards and upwards colleagues, as we say, and hopefully we're in a really strong position. So, I'll pause there, and I can see that the questions are coming in thick and fast, so we'll try and answer a few questions Cindy, if we can before we finish.  

Cindy Lowthian: Yeah. Okay Gary. So, one of the questions is the main difference between the self assessment and the position statement. I think we can answer that quite quickly, can't we? That is the same thing. So, when we talk about a self-assessment or position statement, it's the same document that we require the council to produce setting out the strengths and challenges for that council against the five key lines of enquiry for the corporate peer challenge that is shared with you as peers in advance of our time on site. So, hopefully that answers that question. Go on Gary.  

Gary Hughes: I was going to say, I think, Cindy, as well, the difference, you know, a self-assessment can often be a document that looks back, that looks back at look at what we've done, look at what we've achieved. Well, actually we want that, of course we want look back to councils, but we also want to look forward as well. So, for, for, for us as well, a position statement sets out future plans, future challenges, future priorities as well, so-, and, and it-, and it's also an acceptance that it's part of a, journey. So, you know, it's where you are now and where you want to be. So, I think it's got a slight different cultural feel to it than a self-assessment of past, shall we say. I think I just picked up Nigel's-, spot on Nigel, completely agree. Absolutely. It's very important that we're seen to be open and transparent in part-, in terms of peer selection, and, and if I didn't make that clear, I should've, is that, yeah, absolutely, we seek information about the types of places, the councils, but if somebody says to us, you know, 'I'd like Joe Blogs or Joanna Blogs,' then, you know, absolutely, we, LGA, put the peer team forward as well. So, again, really important, we keep saying this, you peer profiles are up to date, because that's your calling card, that's your introduction to that council.  

Cindy Lowthian: Yeah. We've also got a question, Gary, about-, and I'm conscious of time, just very quickly, how a CPC is initiated.  

Gary Hughes: Yeah, good question.  

Cindy Lowthian: And-, yes. Our strengthened approach if you like is that we now require both the lead and the chief exec to be part of that scoping meeting. In the past sometimes we've done them with just the chief exec who's communicated with the leader, but now the consistency of practice is that to get the ownership politically and officer wise both are invited to that scoping meeting. So, hope that helps answer that. And how does a CPC happen, Gary, if a council doesn't want one to happen?  

Gary Hughes: Yeah.  

Cindy Lowthian: I'll let you answer that  

Gary Hughes: Yeah, the acid test there. So, so, as you heard earlier, colleagues, the LGA has a strong regional improvement network, and we also as well have a real strong network of regional counsellors as well. So, we strongly encourage councils to have a corporate peer challenge, both through the officer networks and through the member networks as well. As Heather mentioned earlier, the draft best value guidance is now best value guidance, and that clearly states the expectation to have a corporate peer challenge every five years. So, again, there's levers there that we can pull. But, you know, we'll be honest, we don't have a mandate to say, 'You must have a corporate peer challenge.' You know, colleagues may have seen some recent news in the MJ, you know, they love to, sort of, you know, name and shame as they-, as they're doing it, but actually, the number of councils now that are not engaged in corporate peer challenge is very, very small. And if they're not engaged in corporate peer challenge, they're usually having something else as well, so they're usually engaged in the peer process. But we're confident that every council, every English council would have had a peer challenge very shortly. Great. I've just had me five minute warning, Cindy, I think. There's some really good questions in the-, in the-, in the Q&A there. I think I'm gonna just mention one about diversity of peers, I think that's been asked a number of times. It's a really, really good point. So, we work across the sector and we, we look to recruit peers from numerous ways. So, in all of our engagement with councils, we're looking for chief execs, senior leaders, senior directors to propose, talent spot and to put forward peers for this. So, again, we're seeking, you know, diverse and inclusive approach in terms of what, what councils put forward in terms of peers. We'll also target people as well. So, when we're out there, we're talking to people, we will actively come up to people and say, 'Do you want to be a peer? Come on, please.' You know.  

So, there's a real approach. You know, like the sector, we need to ensure that we've got inclusivity and we have a diverse peer pool, and there is still work to do in that. But I think, you know, we're really pushing in that area now and I think, you know, there's been some real positive teams where we've got real diverse approach there. So, always work to do but a good strong story there I think.  

Cindy Lowthian: Yeah.  

Gary Hughes: Great. Well, three minutes to go, folks. It's Friday. The sun is shining, and I think it's going to be a nice weekend, so I hope you can get some time to enjoy it. I just wanted to close by certainly thanking you all. We will respond to those questions and we will provide you with a range of information. All of the slides will go up on our website. The recording will go up on our website, and there will also be a short survey to follow up on this as well. So, unless there's anything else to add from colleagues. I'm going to look at Dennis and Heather who are going to shake their heads. Yep, yep, all good. Certainly just want to thank you-, thank you all for your engagement. It's a bit weird delivery presentations on this Zoom because you're just, sort of, talking. I much prefer to be able to see you in person, so, I'd certainly encourage those colleagues to attend our in-person training. But hopefully it's been helpful, hopefully it's whetted your appetite for more information and please, you know, get in contact, and ask any questions you may have. Thank you all. Thank you.